1350 words
(Note: Testosterone differences between the rates are negligible, not high enough to account for differences in prostate cancer mortality. Black males have 2.5 to 4.9 times higher testosterone than white males (see Richard et al, 2014) and my article on the cause for the difference in prostate cancer mortality. The difference in testosterone between the races is not too high, as is commonly believed. Old studies with small ns get cited, when bigger, more robust analyses show the opposite, with a smaller difference. A difference that cannot be attributed to racial differences in prostate cancer.)
(Note 2, 6/23/17: This post is getting a ton of traffic so I need to clarify some things.
Here is a quote from Mazur (2016):
The pattern [high testosterone] is not seen among teenage boys or among females.
…
There is no indication of inordinately high T among young black women with low education.
I cringed pretty hard reading the comments below; I was just like PumpkinPerson arguing something that is not true. However, I am more then capable of admitting that I am wrong with suffcient evidence. Read the most recent posts on testosterone on this blog for more information. End Edit)
The ENA Theory: On Testosterone and Aggressive Behavior by Race/Ethnicity
Why Testosterone Does Not Cause Crime
Testosterone and Aggressive Behavior
Race, Testosterone, and Prostate Cancer
Race, Testosterone, and Honor Culture
It is known that blacks have the highest levels of testosterone out of the major races of humanity. However, what’s not known is that black women have higher rates than white women. The same evolutionary factors that make it possible for black men to have high testosterone make it possible for women as well.
Most people don’t know this, but vitamin D isn’t really a vitamin; it’s a steroid hormone. Higher levels of testosterone occur due to increased exposure to the sun. Of course, the Middle East gets more sunlight than does Europe, so their levels of testosterone will be higher due to increased vitamin D, which in turn increases testosterone, causing more acts of aggression. Vitamin D supplementation could possibly (we know it does) raise testosterone levels. Of course, this is the case, seeing as vitamin D comes from the sun, and the more sun you get, the more Vitamin D you get, which increases testosterone levels. Those populations closer to the equator get more vitamin D from the sun’s rays, and thusly have higher levels of testosterone, on average.
Black women are more androgynous (personal observation, you can’t tell if they’re a man or woman from further away), and are more prone to get in to shouting matches/fights with other men or women. This is the high testosterone at work. Those with higher levels of test are more aggressive and have a more manly look as a result.
Moreover, the higher natural levels of testosterone found in black women are directly responsible for the reason why black men have higher levels of testosterone. Since circulating hormones matter for a woman’s child invitro, it would stand to reason that since black babes are in a woman with higher natural levels of testosterone, that this would pass on to the babe. This is exactly what is observed. One study showed that black women had 50 percent higher testosterone than white women in early pregnancy!! Ross, the head researcher of the study, speculates that “this increased hormonal exposure in utero might reset the so-called “gonadostat feed-back loop,” which regulates testosterone secretion, to a higher level.” With what we know about hormones and babes in the womb, this is a viable hypothesis.
Finally, Satoshi Kanazawa noted in this study that black women were not seen as attractive as women from other races. He says women, on average, are more attractive than men: EXCEPT BLACK WOMEN. The data shows black women as not being statistically different from the average, and far less attractive than whites, Asians, and Native American women.
The cause is higher testosterone. Kanazawa says that the cause for this is due to the mean BMI of black women being 28.5 among black women and 26.1 among non-black women. Though he says that’s not the reason why black women are less physically attractive. Black women have lower levels of intellect net of BMI. Even the racial differences in intelligence don’t account for these differences. Black women are STILL less physically attractive, net of BMI and intelligence. Kanazawa says: “Net of intelligence, black men are significantly more physically attractive than nonblack men.”
Why is that? To be blunt, black women look more like men than women due to their higher levels of testosterone. The amount of crying all throughout the Internet after Kanazawa published his paper says it all: Racist!! Sexist!! Except, they couldn’t respond to the data so of course, as is usually the case with racial/sex differences, bury it, forget about it and proclaim the one who said these uncomfortable truths is a “racist”. Kanazawa ends up concluding that testosterone differences are the only cause for these differences. With blacks having the highest testosterone out of all the races, black women obviously have higher rates of testosterone than white women. Those women with higher levels of testosterone have more masculine features, therefore making them less attractive.
My personal answer as to why black women are less attractive is due to testosterone obviously. But, we as humans can subconsciously detect things such as this. Since high levels of testosterone are correlated with numerous variables that then become masculinzied in black women, this is one very huge reason in my opinion.
Lewis (2010) says in his study Who is the fairest of them all? Race, attractiveness and skin color sexual dimorphism:
Previous research has suggested that perceived attractiveness and personality are affected by the race such that White faces are more attractive but less masculine than Black faces. Such studies, however, have been based on very small stimulus sets. The current study investigated perceived attractiveness and personality for 600 Black, White and mixed-race faces. Many of the investigated personality traits were correlated with race when rated by White participants. Attractiveness specifically was greater for Black male faces than White male faces and among mixed-race faces. Blackness correlated with increased attractiveness. A reverse pattern was found for female faces with Whiteness being associated with attractiveness. The results are discussed in terms of the sexual dimorphism demonstrated in skin color.
NotPoliticallyCorrect 
“so many black women with no “edges” to borrow a word from them”
This is caused by the traction appoplecia due to the pulled back dairstyles many wear (to straighten kinky rootes along the hairline), along with braids, weaves, chemical straightening (all of which can be damaging to hair). And black men do not have higher rates of baldness than wite men, the opposite if anything.
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You’re right about that. I forgot to add that.
A main reason for hair loss is dihydrotestosterone. Higher levels of testosterone lead to higher levels of dihydrotestosterone. But it doesn’t follow the testosterone patterns.
Apparently whites and East Asians are more likely to go bald. I’ll look into the reasons.
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This is bullshit. Black women have the most feminine bodies their “fat” goes to their boobs hips and butt. The baldness is due to chemical relaxers, braids, and weaves. Deeper voices are a culturally thing because I know plenty of black wkmen who are a bit more “white washed” and have higher voices. They also get way less acne than white women. Were you pulling all of this out your ass?
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@Amber.
(RIGHT) The baldness is due to chemical relaxers, braids, and weaves.
(Probably WRONG) Deeper voices are a cultural thing because I know plenty of black women who are a bit more “white washed” and have higher voices.
(DEPENDS ON HYGIENE)
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LOL. I think you’re actually a comedian.
White women have a much higher rate of hair loss than black women. Moreover, white women are much more predisposed than black women to excessive body hair. Excessive body hair and baldness are both positively correlated with high testosterone levels.
Bullshit.
More bullshit.
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See below.
Jm8 noted that black women go bald due to traction alopecia. Constant pulling on hair makes it weak and prone to fall out. Moreover, white women have thinner hair (Northern European women, anyway) so that’s why. The prole Nords go bald early due to thin hair.
No it isn't.
No it isn’t. Read what I wrote again.
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Blacks have certain traits that are more feminine and more neotenous. They (as do Asians—or many E, Asian types. Interestingly, many East Asian types tend to have squarer jaws than other races which could be seen as masculine) tend to have less prominant brow ridges than caucasoid generally (who in turn have less prominant brow ridges than Australian Aborigines and Papuans). Many negroid types also tend to have less sloping and more bulbous/projecting foreheads (frontal skull eminences as Ashley Montagu phrases it) than Europeans. Thicker lips tend to me a more feminine traits (along with the tendency to have less facial and body hair). Mongoloid and some negroid types (incl. some in W. Africa) tend toward prominant cheekbones, which can be a feminizing trait.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroid#Neoteny
“Ashley Montagu lists “neotenous structural traits in which…Negroids [generally] differ from Caucasoids… flattish nose, flat root of the nose, narrower ears, narrower joints, frontal skull eminences, later closure of premaxillary sutures, less hairy, longer eyelashes, [and] cruciform pattern of second and third molars.”[25] He also suggested that in the extinct Negroid group termed the “Boskopoids”, pedomorphic traits proceeded further than in other Negroids.[25″
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Edit: “Thicker lips tend to be a more feminine trait (seen generally more in women, within races I believe)…”
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thicker it could be fine, but not HUGE that is what Negros have … all is HUGE .. due to genetics…. you should be proud of all the huge things you have hehe…. is what make you black !!! big this big that …. come on … is the truth … so many black women want to be lighter look a the sale of bleaching agents the profit is huge !!! …. do not hide your real hair expose it tell the world this is us or you I mean ( not me ) I am white thank you very much…
Tell the world HUGE is beautiful …. as long your own people likes it that is great … you do not have to find acceptation with white people !!!
Tell the world yes we are huge, we have high tetesterone we are all different
then the peace and acceptance and the result will be we are what we are period. If I was black I would say yes that is us so we are not suppose to different ? we are another race … by getting mad or crazy due to high tetesterone 🙂 and not admitting it you show inferiority complex or some desire to be like white women … you are attractive in the eyes of black men and that is good … I am white and I only want to be attractive for white men the rest i could not care less….
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Edit: “…East Asian types tend to have squarer—and perhaps often wider—jaws than…”
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Traction alopecia and hair thinning from chemical or other damage are not genetic. Secondly, you’re asking me to read what you wrote as confirmation of the junk you’re spewing. You’re writing bullshit, and you’re directing me to the same bullshit as some sort of “proof” of your bullshit.
There’s absolutely no credible evidence that black people have greater testosterone concentrations than white people. People like you rely on an old and terribly flawed study which has since been debunked. In fact, white people have higher levels of testosterone than black people. You don’t really need a scientific study to figure that out. Black people are relatively hairless, while white people can be nearly as hairy as monkeys.
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Of course Satoshi Kanazawa has been roundly and comprehensively debunked. Read some of it here:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/the-data-are-in-regarding-satoshi-kanazawa/
But like a typical racist HBD ideologue, this blogger doesn’t care. He found something that appeals to his racism so he’s going to stick his head in the sand and run with it despite all opposing and contradictory studies, evidence and opinion. Hence why HBD is a joke and why its adherents are jokers.
In terms of attractiveness, that is in the eye of the beholder. It’s also governed by conditioning. There are many cultures where if a typical white, blonde, blue-eyed Miss America type showed up she would be considered an ugly and grotesque creature. You think that what western society considers a beautiful white woman would be considered beautiful if she walked into an African village that is unaccustomed to white people? Hell no, she instantly would be the ugliest human being they have ever seen.
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Sorry, but light-skinned Caucasoid and Mongoloid females have been repeatedly shown to carry features that makes them more attractive to human males than women of the other races. Your Humanities trash doesn’t hold from stuff like anonymous recordings of users of dating sites, among others.
http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2013/07/white-skin-privilege.html
http://time.com/3302251/9-ugly-truths-big-data-ok-cupid-book/
http://www.thegrio.com/specials/life-and-style/study-reveals-racial-segregation-in-online-dating.php
Click to access racialPreferences.pdf
http://paa2008.princeton.edu/download.aspx?submissionId=80046
http://qz.com/149342/the-uncomfortable-racial-preferences-revealed-by-online-dating/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2008/07/why-does-race-matter-for-women/
Click to access 15_mate_choice_PB.pdf
https://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/race-attraction-2009-2014/
http://www.femininebeauty.info/feminine-vs-masculine
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Of course it’s in the eye of the beholder and culture does dictate beauty, in a sense. However, as Salger has shown, lighter phenotypes are consistently shown to be more attractive than darker phenotypes.
Moreover, intelligence, facial symmetry, height and beauty all correlate with one another.
I beg to differ. This is why SSA and MENA peoples rape white women, right? Lighter phenotypes are clearly more attractive, on average.
That’s a nice article you put from SA.
response to kanazawa in scientific american not convincing
What Salger has shown shows that, on average, black women are less attractive than other women. Is testosterone the cause? I believe so. Black women have higher rates of testosterone in their second trimesters, which is another cause for black men having high levels of test: they’re exposed to it prenatally.
@Salger,
Those people are clearly racist and just telling what they want to see/hear about the data. The people polled clearly have racial biases and thus we cannot trust them.
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http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/testosterone-race-and-crime/
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Differences in T are not necessarily the main cause of differences in crime.
http://racehist.blogspot.com/2009/10/can-racial-differences-in-circulating.html
“How does he explain greater Mexican criminality? How does he explain criminality in sub-Saharan Africa when sub-Saharan Africans average lower T than Westerners?” …why sub-Saharan Africans have lower T is immaterial; the question is how their managing to combine low T and high criminality …”
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According to Richard et al’s 2014 meta-analysis, blacks have, on average, 2.5 to 4.9 percent higher testosterone than Whites.
Racial variation in sex steroid hormone concentration in black and white men: a meta-analysi
Of course things like MAOA-L and the like play a role. See Beaver et al 2013. They say that abuse as a kid activates the MAOA-L alleles, and blacks do abuse their kids at a high rate. Blacks have the 2 and 3 repeat alleles, 5 percent for the 2 repeat compared to .01 percent of whites and 52 percent for the 3 repeat with 37 percent of whites having that.
Prostate cancer is twice as likely in black men compared to white men. Testosterone doesn’t explain all of the variance, so other genetic and environmental factors take care of the rest. But the higher levels of testosterone do play pretty big part in it.
Blacks do not have lower levels of testosterone than Whites. In fact, as I showed in my article, blacks are exposed to higher levels of testosterone in the womb.
We also know, according to Dabbs at al, men who commit more crimes of violence and sex have higher levels of testosterone.
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One study, interestingly, suggests that Saudis have high rates of the 2 repeat MAO allele.
In the Saudi control group, the 2 repeat MAO-A frequency was 15.6% and the 3 repeat 40.6%, making the total short repeat frequency 56.3%.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11033-012-2012-2
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Edit: “…suggests that Saudis have high rates….higher than African Americans, of the 2-repeat allele”
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“Sorry, but light-skinned Caucasoid and Mongoloid females have been repeatedly shown to carry features that makes them more attractive to human males than women of the other races.”
That’s based on conditioning and only conditioning. Such a person walking into any aboriginal village where this conditioning has not occurred would be considered grotesquely ugly.
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“I beg to differ. This is why SSA and MENA peoples rape white women, right? Lighter phenotypes are clearly more attractive, on average.”
So if somebody rapes a woman that means they find her attractive? Black African men rape a great many more African women. In fact the rapes of white women by Africans are rare in the extreme. And what about white men raping African women, which has happened historically and continues today? In fact white men have engaged in systemic, wholesale rapes of black women in Africa. Does that mean that white men find African women more attractive than white women?
“What Salger has shown shows that, on average, black women are less attractive than other women.”
I wouldn’t expect anything less in the West. I can assure you, as an African, that Africans do not find white people more attractive, even today with all the Hollywood movies and western culture they have been exposed to. In the old days they would have found white people absolutely revolting. Listen very carefully: IT’S ALL DUE TO CONDITIONING. If you were raised by gorillas you would be conditioned into their idea of beauty. That means that you would be attracted to a gorilla female while probably recoiling from a human female.
“Black women have higher rates of testosterone in their second trimesters, which is another cause for black men having high levels of test: they’re exposed to it prenatally.”
Again, bullshit. No comprehensive, large sample size study supports the notion that black people (male or female) have higher testosterone concentrations than white people. In fact Jm8’s links completely debunk this entire line of argument. If anything, testosterone concentrations are lower in blacks vis a vis whites. Again, whites are hairy, blacks are not. Excessive body hair doesn’t happen in a vacuum, it’s caused by high testosterone levels.
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There is more than enough data to show that today, black women are not seen as attractive of women of other races. Why you contest this, I don’t know. Lighter phenotypes are considered more attractive. It’s not ‘conditioning’.
You’re too into this ‘blank slate’ notion. It’s not ‘conditioning’. Your biology would tell you to mate with that damn human, no matter if you’re raised with apes or not.
No it’s not:
According to Richard et al’s 2014 meta-analysis, blacks have, on average, 2.5 to 4.9 percent higher testosterone than Whites.
Racial variation in sex steroid hormone concentration in black and white men: a meta-analysis
There is a difference, and it’s part genetic in origin.
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“There is more than enough data to show that today, black women are not seen as attractive of women of other races. Lighter phenotypes are considered more attractive. It’s not ‘conditioning.”
First, you haven’t presented any credible data. Second, if lighter phenotypes are considered more attractive why do actual studies confirm that mixed-race people (black/white mix) are most attractive?
http://www.spring.org.uk/2016/07/racial-group-seen-attractive.php
And the Kanazawa study you cited says black men are the most attractive. Last I checked, black men are not a lighter phenotype.
Again, conditioning. An idea of beauty changes over time based on conditioning. A pallid, thin lipped, flat assed woman is no longer the ideal of beauty in the United States. Exotic features, full lips, naturally tanned skin and a round ass are what’s desired. In fact women lacking these features will burn under the sun and undergo dangerous surgical procedures to acquire them. There are actually white women who want to have half-black kids because they consider them more beautiful than pure white kids.
“You’re too into this ‘blank slate’ notion. It’s not ‘conditioning’. Your biology would tell you to mate with that damn human, no matter if you’re raised with apes or not.”
There have been some cases of feral kids. That is, kids raised by animals. Human kids have been raised by dogs and wolves. Those kids assimilated the behavior, mannerisms and lifestyle of those animals. It safe to say that they found mating with those animals perfectly natural, whereas if a human came near them, they would run away. But since my premise envisaged being raised by gorillas, let’s focus on the boy raised by monkeys in Uganda:
http://www.newvision.co.ug/new_vision/news/1314386/raised-monkeys-strugging-human
There is no way this boy, had he reached sexual maturity, would be sexually attracted to a human. He would want to mate with monkey females.
“According to Richard et al’s 2014 meta-analysis, blacks have, on average, 2.5 to 4.9 percent higher testosterone than Whites.”
Sex steroid hormone levels can be altered dramatically with changes to diet and lifestyle. That’s hardly genetic. Unless you’ve tested some black Africans, who have a radically different diet and lifestyle (less meat, more organic, less sedentary) you have absolutely no standing to attribute the differences to genetics. And it’s cute how you picked a study that focused on sex steroids. Weren’t we talking about androgenic testosterone?
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Is Peter Frost good enough?
…
And on Africans:
Testosterone and Human Variation
They probably have more average faces, as average faces are considered more attractive. I found the paper, I’ll read it and we can discuss it in a few days.
Oh of course! For instance, 100 years ago in America, a more buxom figure was found to be attractive. Now, a thinner figure is more attractive. Things change, you’re right about that.
On facial attractiveness:
Facial attractiveness: evolutionary based research
Correct, but does that hold for the whole population? I think not.
Thanks for the story. Do you have any idea if he speaks about his experiences or does he not remember them?
So would you say that, up to a certain point, one can be raised as if he were a literal animal? Like, the article said that he was thought to be in the wild for three years beginning at the age for 3, so do you think there is a cutoff point for when children wouldn’t become feral if left in the wild? Say, five-years-old?
Of course, however, with what we know physiologically about blacks, we know they do have slightly higher levels of test (higher prostate cancer rates, lower fat-free body, squarer jaw, etc).
See the Frost article.
That’s like saying what does sugar have to do with carbohydrates. They are linked.
Test is secreted mainly by the testes of the male. Androgen is the generic term for any natural or synthetic compound, stimulating and controlling development and maintenance of masculine characteristics in male vertebrates.
Source: me: Personal Trainer and nutrition consultant
Really, testosterone is in the androgen family. Just playing word games, to be honest.
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Science has shown that the more melanin your skin has (the darker), the less vitamin d your skin is able to absorb. Melanin inherently provides more protection from the sun, it’s the reason why people of African descent so often have vitamin d deficiency compared to their lighter counterparts. They are often suggested to supplement vitamin d to overcompensate. Paler skins better absurd vitamin. You sound foolish and heavily prejudiced.
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I know this. Blacks have higher rates of prostate cancer due to this (and diet)—not substantially higher levels of testosterone, as is commonly thought (blacks have 2.5 to 4.9 percent higher testosterone [Richard et al 2014]).
Hypercalcemia exists.
Vitamin D steroid hormone. I know this. I don’t think I said otherwise.
Not at all.
You should have read a few more of the articles on this blog, specifically: Explaining the Black-White Prostate Cancer Gap
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The irony is that black women typically have excess estrogen, it’s evidenced by many black women being plagued with fibroids at much higher rates then Asian and white women, but I suppose that bit of data didn’t make the cut. Rather it seems these so called “tests” of black men and women are non supported pseudoscientific claims, similar to those in the 1900s that proposed Asians were the least intelligent group because of their head size, we saw how that faired.
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That’s like when people were going around saying that white people had higher facial symmetry then other races, because those with higher facial symmetry were deemed more attractive. Then it was found that genetic diversity and being more heterozygous gave one more facial symmetry. Black Africans were found to be more genetically diverse then all other continents combined, even within small obscure communities, which would mean they have higher facial symmetry but I guess this testosterone fallacy is the new racist ideology to latch on too
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Which leads to breast cancer, earlier puberty (along with higher rates of leptin), etc. Black women do have more testosterone.
Such as? I just showed you that there’s a 2.5 to 4.9 difference in testosterone between blacks and whites.
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The less testosterone a women has the less likely she is to get uterine fibroids and breast cancer, which black women have often, and that guys research was disproven multiple times already, he’s a quack.
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Who’s a ‘quack’?
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I know this. This occurred also in part due to sexual selection (Fuerle, 2008: 64). Testosterone is also an androgen, which increases masculine traits. Ever seen a woman bodybuilder? Though racial differences in crime come down to other factors.
For the third time, I just showed you that black men have 2.5 to 4.9 percent higher testosterone than white men. And I just showed you that black women have 50 percent higher testosterone in early pregnancy compared to white women.
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The colder the climate the higher the testosterone levels, Africans come from warm climates and overall hotter temperate zones. Also whites go bald more than black people and white women have more cases of “male” pattern baldness.
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See Peter Frost: Testosterone and Human Variation.
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Remember that proven study with actual hard scientific evidence that stated that Black women had significantly higher estrogen levels and lower testosterone levels on their menstrual cycle compared to Caucasian women, well it’s still stands today unlike this embarrassment to science and medicine
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There was a credible national endocrine study done that found that black men have HIGHER estrogen and EQUAL testosterone to white men, this study detailed and described this difference as the reason there is a disparity between these two groups in regards to prostate cancer. Here’s the link, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21849524/.
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That’s racial differences in estrogen and doesn’t disprove that black women had 50 percent higher testosterone in early pregnancy.
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“Contrary to the postulated racial difference, testosterone concentrations did not differ notably between black and white men. However, blacks had higher estradiol levels. Mexican-Americans had higher testosterone than whites but similar estradiol and SHBG concentrations. Given these findings, it may be equally if not more important to investigate estradiol as testosterone in relation to diseases with racial disparity.”
It’s long been believed that black people have more testosterone than white’s but the opposite is true. Apparently Mexican men have the most testosterone, then white and black men make around the same level with black men making more estrogen. This makes sense in the fact that black men and women tend to have less body hair.
“Elevated levels of estrogen adversely affect the development of male secondary sexual characteristics, often halting hair growth”
With black women, they make more estrogen and testosterone than white women comparatively, so they make more male and female hormones in general to where it balances out. Which makes sense with their libido being higher and more muscular frame while with the estrogen making of the widening of their hips and fat in breast and the butt. The increased estrogen production also accounts for the increased risk in black women to have develop fibroids as well as why many have exaggerated sexual features. Ex: Full lips, big eyes, big breast, wide hips, large butts. They also tend to begin their period at earlier ages. Then with the increased testosterone making their frame larger and their sexual libido greater.
“It is known that before menopause, African-American women have a higher breast cancer risk than whites, as well as higher estrogen levels,” Setiawan says. “It would be interesting to find out why their elevated rates do not persist after menopause, despite having comparatively higher estrogen levels.”
press (.) endocrine (.) org/doi/full/10.1210/jc.2007-0028
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I showed you Richard et al 2014, a meta-analysis of 24 studies.
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Studies have shown that black men have HIGHER estrogen levels and EQUAL testosterone to white men which account for the disparities when regarding prostate cancer.
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So we agree that black women aged higher testosterone? I showed you Macintosh 1997 for the citation for women testosterone. I showed you Richard et al 2014 showing that testosterone varied by 2.5 to 4.9 percent and wasn’t enough to account for the prostate cancer disparity. I even linked you an article I wrote on it but you didn’t even read it.
Low levels of vitamin D explain the difference as well. Which is due to their skin color. I’ve never denied some of what to treat saying to me. I know a bit abkht hormones because it’s kinda my job to do so.
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Richard et al 2014 stated, “we did not observe statistically significant differences in total testosterone concentrations between black and white men”. The discussion section also addresses that large genetic diversity (being more heterogenous) accounts for the differences in “free testosterone levels”considering ” the magnitude of the racial difference was very heterogeneous between the studies”. If you couldn’t comprehend, essentially the article is stating, there is no viable difference in the levels of testosterone and the larger genetic differences in the black subjects verses the white subjects is the reason for the apparent difference in free testosterone levels.
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Again, I know how to comprehend this article, because I read papers like this evry day for my job. See the discussion:
In the multivariable-adjusted models, total testosterone was also significantly higher in black than white men, but the magnitude of the racial difference was very heterogeneous between the studies, as were the factors adjusted for (see Tables 1 and and2).2). To evaluate how much of the difference in results was because of a different subset of studies in the meta-analyses of the unadjusted, age-adjusted and multivariable-adjusted results, we performed sensitivity analyses including only those studies that each provided all three estimates. The results in this subset of studies were similar to those overall; however, the differences between black and white men were statistically significant, irrespective of the level of adjustment. This may be because of the smaller heterogeneity in this sample.
And free test varied in men in all models.
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We don’t agree, black women across the board often have lower testosterone proportionate to white women. I’m literally saying black women make more estrogen and testosterone then white and Asian women, but the ratio of estrogen to testosterone shows that the feminization of black women would be the same or higher then other women. Also studies show that whites commit more crimes and are arrested less then black people, especially when it comes to drugs, because the are deemed less “criminal” , also more impoverished groups have more criminal activity throughout history. The systematic structures of racism and oppression in this country support a system of white supremacy that create divisions of wealth based on a spectrum of whitest to blackest. The crime of Irish and Italian immigrants when they first arrived in the country was high because many lived well below the poverty line. Also if your about to reference crime in Africa and other majority black countries, also make time to educate yourself on the remnants and scars of European imperialism since you want to make far fetched and lofty claims about who’s inherently more aggressive. You seem well aware that the information you offer is either entirely biased or not for the intended purpose of any of your arguments but you persist anyway. Racist theorists like you hide behind a veil of trickery to prove merit less points about people you will never properly ingratiate yourself with. Is there data that shows why black people are more likely to act as good Samaritans to strangers regardless of race, is there research that shows why white people and black people despite your “endless” stream of knowledge that they are vastly different beings produce seemingly healthy offspring, or maybe there’s research that explains why your so hard pressed to use junk science to create any negative illusion you can about black people. I get it, we all get it, you want to prove black people are inferior an race because your superiority hinges solely on that, without black people being violent, dumb and ulgy how can you be safe, beautiful and smart. Truth is every group has the same capacity to be attractive, kind and erudite and if we lived in a world that wasn’t so heavily dominated by themes of racism, sexism and ageism you would see that. Alas your blind and you let your morality be ruled by a separatist ideology with zero real facts to back it up. Your going to read this comment deny every single thing I’ve said with some “factoid” that you’ve littered throughout your poorly written “article”, say your not racist your just “doing your job” and “I’ve already said etc” and by the end of it you’ll be the seem cur you were when you started. Go ahead, make your attempt to tell me I’m wrong knowing I’m right.
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Read:
Aging and bone metabolism in African American and Caucasian women.
How did I know that something like this would pop up.
Whites do commit more crimes, only because there are 5 whites for every one black. But adjusted for population percentage, blacks commit way more crime.
Is it like this today? Can anyone—regardless of skin color—attain the same amount of wealth if they are intelligent and hard working?
How is it today? They are assimilated. Look at Italian and Irish crime then compare it to black crime.
I don’t discount that that has a lot to do with it. Does that account for crime today though?
I don’t know; can you show me? Junk science? Illusion? They are really there, sorry if you deny the truth.
When have I professed these idiotic terms? Can you point it out to me?
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“Is it like this today? Can anyone—regardless of skin color—attain the same amount of wealth if they are intelligent and hard working?”
No, family wealth is a huge booster in life. I can double my net worth in a couple of years all while being lazy and dumb just because I don’t need banks and I know the right people. You can be a smart and hardworking guy, it’s gonna be a lot more difficult for you to get at my level. True self made men are the exception, not the norm.
“How is it today? They are assimilated. Look at Italian and Irish crime then compare it to black crime.”
Lol, they’re assimilated, they’re not anymore Italian and Irish. At the same time, a black person could be rich smart and at the highest level of propriety, they would still sit at the back of the bus and could never pass for white as successful immigrants did.
US society has always refused the assimilation of blacks, rejecting inter-marriage, race mixing and neighborhood integration.
“I don’t discount that that has a lot to do with it. Does that account for crime today though?”
Most African countries are safe if you control for the level of law enforcement.
“When have I professed these idiotic terms? Can you point it out to me?”
That might not be the case for you but lots of people denigrate others to boost their self esteem.
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US society has always refused the assimilation of blacks, rejecting inter- marriage, race mixing and neighborhood integration.
This goes both ways.
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“This goes both ways.”
Huh ? Are you saying blacks are intentionally segregating themselves ?
And even if they did, I think they have more than legitimate reasons for not embracing mainstream society.
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Plenty of American blacks self-segregate. Many are opposed to inter-racial marriage. Many hold to their sub-culture as opposed to the “mainstream.” Their reasons are their own and are as legitimate as any other group’s.
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Let’s cut to the chase.
Will Leslie Jones be the ultimate super model or not?
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There are a few issues with your hormonal theories:
1- The heritability of testosterone is low
“Age-adjusted heritability estimates were 0.19, 0.40, 0.40, 0.30, and 0.41 for cFT, TT, E1, E2, and SHBG, respectively. Adjustment for covariates did not substantially attenuate these estimates; SHBG-adjusted TT results were similar to those obtained for cFT. Genetic correlation coefficients (ρG) indicated substantial genetic association between TT and cFT (ρG=0.68), between TT and SHBG (pG = 0.87), between E1 and E2 (ρG = 0.46), and between TT and E2 (ρG = 0.48).”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3825765/
2-Hormonal levels are very unstable even within a day. They are influenced by activity, nutrition, age a many other variables. If the black subjects were more likely to come to the test on foot and the white ones by car, it’s enough to cause a slight difference. And that’s why it’s so difficult and even pointless to try to identify racial differences. The wikipedia article is rather good imo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone
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Racial differences in testosterone are trivial I’ve now realized. Though small differences exist.
Testosterone raises when you see a woman, in group situations, etc. Serum testosterone levels should be taken in the morning upon waking while fasting a few hours before to get a consistent result.
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Same low heritability for leptin.
“RESULTS: Women had higher mean leptin levels (16.8±9.5 ng/ml), and more overall variability in leptin levels than men (6.4±3.5 ng/ml; P<0.0001). Leptin levels correlated highly with BMI in men and women. Among women, the MZ and DZ pairwise correlations for leptin were 0.41 (P=0.009) and 0.07 (P=0.32), respectively. Among men the MZ and DZ pairwise correlations for leptin were 0.47 (P=0.006) and 0.23 (P=0.10). Univariate twin analysis indicated that, among women, 34% and, among men, 45% of the variance in leptin can be attributed to additive genetic effects, and the remainder to unique environmental effects. Significant non-additive genetic or shared familial effects could not be demonstrated. A bivariate twin analysis of leptin and BMI indicated that the correlation between additive genetic effects on leptin and BMI was 0.79 (95% CI 0.68-0.86) in women, and 0.68 (0.51-0.80) in men. The correlation between environmental effects on leptin and BMI was 0.77 (95% CI 0.66-0.85) in women, and 0.48 (0.26-0.66) in men.”
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v25/n1/full/0801526a.html
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I am aware that leptin is very strongly mediated by the environment. Of course there are a lot of effects in the environment that lead to higher rates of leptin. Body fat gains precede leptin increases in puberty.
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Living organisms aren’t rocks, they owe a great part of their adaptability to the plasticity of their biological processes.
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So sad to read this . We already know that the black man are physically more attractive then any man walking on this earth . But for the black woman that these so call expert’s say that the black woman is not as attractive as other woman I take offense to. Every time I look at TV read a ad all the “other woman” are trying to add a Ass or lips remove a rib to make a better waist line change there face to get the high cheek bone .The African American culture has such a high impact on the USA let alone the world you come up with this bull. Have you ever thought to say that African, Blacks or what ever you decided to call us this week are the higher human race and others are weaker.
In ever race in the Indian culture ,Asian culture, and even in African American culture and so on they put dark people down but I’m am sure they are the stronger of the two. And please don’t let us forget how during the slave period you breed the African American but when you did this you forced them to have sex with there mothers and fathers so o am sure that had a pro found affect on them as well.. There no mystery hear just a point of view. I’ve done some world traveling a meet and saw a lot of unattractive people of all people. But none of them had a history as the black people do hear in the USA. People are so quick to judge because of racism before you can appreciate the person , but why would I expect more from you people other then to find another way to brain wash the rest of the world. More then anything I feel sorry for you.
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As a woman I don’t find black men to be more attractive than others. I find Italian men much more attractive. There are handsome men in all races, enough with the reverse racism bs.
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I find this article very interesting, I am currently doing a report on black woman self- esteem impacted by the media in Western Culture. I was wondering that isn’t it very strange that black woman tend to have much more curvier bodies but still found that the testosterone adds masculinity. How do those two variable correlate, when in our society today we long for an hourglass shape. Also may I ask do you feel that skin colour has anything to do with this, does having lighter skin make you more attractive?
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Thanks. Testosterone isn’t too much higher in black women than in white women.
If you’re talking about longing for an hour glass-shaped woman you need to read this article Why Are Men Attracted to Low Waist-to-hip Ratios?
The two correlate in that black men find obese women more attractive, which, to some researchers means they are protecting black women against body pathology.
Freedman et al (2004) observed that, as expected, black men were more likely to choose heavier figures as an ideal body for women than white men. Also expected was that both groups would choose figures with a low waist to hip ratio, but black men would choose a lower waist to hip ratio as ideal. They also show weight to be a more important cue than waist to hip ratio in mate selection as well as supporting the theory that black men’s preferences may serve as a protective factor against eating and body image pathology in black women.
Lighter skinned women are seen as more attractive whereas black men are seen as more attractive, as Kanazawa says, due to higher levels of testosterone. Mesomorphic men are seen as more attractive and black men are more likely to be mesomorphic.
Lighter skin in women is seen as attractive in women, but not really in men according to what I’ve read.
I’ll link more studies for you later.
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Blacks are more likely to be vitamin D deficient than any other race. Increased amounts of melanin reduce the efficiency of absorbing vit D from sunlight. We get VD from our diet and supplements. Therefore it is impossible for black people to have higher testosterone levels due to higher levels of VD. Try again.
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I know this, it’s why they have higher rates of prostate cancer.
I know.
Did you read any of my other numerous articles on testosterone and crime, honor culture, prostate cancer and race? If you had, you’d see that I no longer hold this position. It’s even at the top of the page.
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It says 2.5 to 4.9%, not 2.5 to 4.9 times. You’re not even two sentences in and already exaggerating things by a factor of 100. Not to mention the fact that the paper you cited even cites within it a large study (in fact, the largest one they saw) which they didn’t include in their meta-analysis because only median numbers were reported and did not show an appreciable difference between white and black men with regard to testosterone levels. If that had been included the difference would have been even less, possibly even statistically insignificant.
More importantly, higher testosterone rates in men of a certain rate doesn’t imply higher testosterone rates in women of the same race. Men’s and women’s bodies are different, and most of all with respect to sex hormones. Observe the study titled “Estrogen levels higher among black women during menstrual cycle” by Marsh and EE. J Clin for example, which showed that black women do not have higher testosterone levels than white women but do have higher estrogen rates than white women. I couldn’t find a larger study where this has been looked at. It’s well-known among women that non-obese black women have a much easier time in conception and pregnancy, and these things are linked to high levels of female hormones.
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A few things to consider. 1) typos happen. 2)I agree with this. Even then the 2.5 to 4.9 percent difference is not enough to cause a) crime, b) aggression and c) prostate cancer. If you would have read all of my other articles on testosterone that I published after this, you’ll see that my view has changed substantially on this issue. Please read all of my recent articles on testosterone and race, crime, aggression and prostate cancer.
I am well aware of this.
Read the article that I just published the other day clarifying the point that black women don’t have higher levels of testosterone than white women and that the common race realist trope of blacks having higher testosterone is wrong.
No, Black Women Do Not Have Higher Testosterone than White Women (And More On Hereditarian Claims on Racial Testosterone Differences)
You read the notes I left at the top of the article and caught my typo, then you disregard the quotes from Mazur (2016) which clarify my new position on this issue? That doesn’t make sense.
For the record, anyone who still doesn’t understand my view here, here it is: black women do not have higher testosterone levels than white women. Testosterone doesn’t cause crime, aggression, or prostate cancer. I’ve covered these things extensively. There are no “genes for” testosterone its production is indirect through DNA. Blacks have a slight advantage in testosterone (other analyses show no difference, and even then the analysis from Richard et al 2014 could be due to measurement error) which does not cause any of the common sayings that race realists spew.
Also read: The ENA Theory: On Testosterone and Aggressive Behavior By Race/Ethnicity
My position is now clarified and has been clarified on this for months. For some reason, people just disregard the notes I leave at the top of these articles and read what they agree with. That’s bullshit. It’s not true and I’ve clarified myself numerous times on this matter.
Please read my other articles on testosterone.
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To RR:
“It says 2.5 to 4.9%, not 2.5 to 4.9 times”
I’m afraid the typo is still there (it still misleadingly says “2.5-4.9 times”, when it should be “2.5 to 4.9%).
And, at the top of the article, in “Note: Testosterone differences between the rates are negligible”
“rates” should be “races”
(otherwise, it’s a good/note introductory portion at the top)
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Edit: Where it says: “Black males have 2.5 to 4.9 times higher testosterone than white males (see Richard et al, 2014)…”
It should say:
“Black males have 2.5 to 4.9% higher testosterone than white males (see Richard et al, 2014)…”
(the latter being what it says in the source—and which is a pretty much or almost negligible difference, as you know, and likely largely, if not entirely, environmental, as you have also discussed)
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To RR:
You wrote at the top:
“Note: testosterone differences between the rates are negligible”
It should be “…differences between the races” right?
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[…] continue to gloss over these heavy defects and still expect us to walk these woman down the aisle. Black women have more testosterone flowing through their veins than non black women, this is why most black women walking the streets today resemble men. This is also the reason why […]
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This is the perfect example here. This person glosses over the disclaimer at the top. Why don’t people read? Why do people only read what they want to see?
No, Black Women Do Not Have Higher Testosterone than White Women (And More On Hereditarian Claims on Racial Testosterone Differences)
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Great article. I have always wondered about Testosterone in black females and why they look more masculine.
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Please read the slew of disclaimers at the top. It’s wrong. I was horribly wrong. Also read my most recent response to people citing this article without reading any of my others on testosterone.
No, Black Women Do Not Have Higher Testosterone than White Women (And More On Hereditarian Claims on Racial Testosterone Differences)
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This article and the comments made me laugh so hard ; how stupid humans are and reading this , I am embarrassed to call some of my human race – my brothers and sisters but that’s what we are . All these studies are biased and if this is what we call scientific research – say no more , what a joke ! It is time for human consciousness to evolve and stop spouting garbage . Every one is an individual and can only be judged on an individual basis . To narrow down research to something as simple as hormones , is ludicrous . It is not that simplistic and we al Carry the gene ability of all the other races within us but this is never told to humans , is it ?!!! We all have 12 DNA strands . Every cell has the ability to unlock other parts of the cell and if it’s not , it may be that our very consciousness affects it . As the great physicists Say, “ consciousness is the seat of all reality.” When someone does research , they look at it from one tiny side, forgetting that the universe is energy , codes and consciousness . Suddenly !!! Everything becomes very basic and Material but all Material energy is merely consciousness made visible temporarily . All humans are like grass as their consciousness is like grass and it’s time to individually evolve instead of spouting this prejudiced garbage . Shame ! Shame ! Shame !
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You’re fucking stupid.
You’re harping on with this pseudoscientific bullshit about how black men have more testosterone than white men.
You’re too stupid to realize that you are basically saying that white men are less manly than black men.
While you’re trying to put down black women, you simultaneously put down white men.
You self-defeating moron.
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Black women have higher estrogen. Your statement that black women are more androgenous far away is false. Black women on average have the curviest bodies and fuller lips than females of all the other races due to high estrogen levels. From far away you could tell a black females body apart from a black males than you could a white or asian female from white or asian men.
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Please go back and reread the beginning where I corrected myself. I agree with your assertions. Also read:
No, Black Women Do Not Have Higher Testosterone than White Women (And More On Hereditarian Claims on Racial Testosterone Differences)
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Black women look more like men? Really? That’s why they are more curvateous, big lips, eyes, bum, hips etc? That doesn’t make sense at all
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With all due respect, this sounds like it was written by a person with very little research training. I’m sure you’ve heard correlation does not mean causation. This topic has many layers. It does not account for the large number of blacks that find black women more attractive than white (this is a widespread idea believe it or not). I’d even argue that it’s clear that black women are the most attractive (attractive black vs attractive white not poor disadvantaged blk vs privileged white). I’ve no issues with your opinion but it is not scientifically or even logically sound.
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Did you not read the bolded text on the top of the article? I’ve also written a piece rejecting this old one as well.
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What do you define as attractive and how do you determine african women pertaining the most of it?
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Lies and not scientific at all to say we know black women are not attractive… smells like racism. The human race comes from a black woman. She is beautiful.
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If black women have higher testosterone in pregnancy this can verify that blacks have higher prenatal testosterone in general and thus digit ratios would make sense…right?
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You state “4.9 times higher” when your reference says “4.9 percent”. 4.9 percent is 0.049 times! Not 4.9 times. That so you are wrong by 100 times (or 10,000% wrong 🙂 ). Please correct your math above. Also, your survey was poor. See https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/92/7/2519/2598282
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I think the original conclusions were,in fact,correct,but that the conclusions always have to be corrected because it is offensive to blacks,period.The prevailing science that blacks do have higher testosterone levels was retracted just as this blog owner’s conclusions were retracted,not because there were any subsequent studies to refute it,but simply because it offended blacks.Even though blacks clearly have genetic traits which distinguish them from other races and that these differences are real and relevant,we are not supposed to say it.Blacks will troll comment sections,desperately trying to sound smart,and leaving long-winded and emotional comments and post link after link supposedly challenging a particular claim about blacks or PC back pedaling on the original research to pacify blacks.Come on black people,the racial truth won’t hurt you,there is no need to deny it,it may even help you.Its certainly better than living the lie of being equal to other races,when average performance and achievement outcomes clearly don’t support this.Political correctness be damned,blacks ARE hormonally different from whites and it DOES influence their behavior,their appearance and their susceptibility to certain medical conditions.The universal PC viewpoint has always been that either there are no differences between races or that these differences are so small as to be inconsequential.Well,clearly observation,historical evidence and science disputes this notion,although science also often feels obliged to follow the PC consensus to protect the “feelings” of blacks and keep their research grants.
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The blog’s author readily acknowledges the erroneous, stupid-ass premise upon which he built his erroneous, stupid-ass conclusions, so why are YOU asserting that a BLOG AUTHOR is kowtowing to “emotional comments?” READ THE BOLDED PREAMBLE so that you know what you’re talking about instead of posting gibberish.
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