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100 posts!! A nice special post today, Robert Lindsay’s accusation of HBD being ‘racist’ is on the table today. As always, I want to hear what you want me to write on so send me an email, address is in the sidebar.
Robert Lindsay asks “Is HBD an Ideology of Hatred and Racism?” It, of course, isn’t. Today I’ll rebut his piece saying that it is “hatred and ‘racism’ (whatever that means)”. He says that HBDers who resist ‘racism’ (which I will address later) are “swimming against the tide” and “probably have to exercise a bit of self-control to not go over to the dark side.” What is he even talking about? What “dark side” is there? Being ‘racist’?
This is because HBD facts tend to lend pretty regularly to quite a bit of racism and the hatred that goes along with it. And if you notice, the more hardcore the HBD’er is, the more racist they tend to sound.
Of course these facts lead to ‘racism’, however, these ‘racists’ will be ‘racist’ with or without the facts of HBD. I will touch more on that later. In the meantime, he says “the more hardcore the HBD’er is, the more racist they tend to sound.” Robert, are you just making broad generalizations? Do you have anything to back your claim on this statement? Or are you just talking out of your ass?
HBD in and of itself is not racist of course, not in any sane sense of the word.
I agree with him saying that the Left has destroyed any “meaning” that the word “racist” has. However, even without the overstating of the word “racist”, HBD itself would not be a racist ideology. It is, however, racist to the average person who doesn’t know the science involved in racial differences. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary has two definitions for ‘racism’. It defines ‘racism’ as:
a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
- Racial prejudice or discrimination
Well, “superiority” is meaningless. Race is not a primary determinant of human traits as there is a lot of crossover. However, there are racial/ethnic differences in phenotype which of course are caused by differences in genotype. That is not up for discussion, but the term ‘inherent superiority’ is.
Of course to the average person, HBD is seen as ‘racist’. But is researching/reading about human differences and being interested in their causes and what they mean today really ‘racist’ or a want to learn more about human evolution and how and why we got here?
But the ones who are very deep into it and talk about it all the time, well, it’s quite clear that they have a pretty low opinion of NAM’s. Even worse, a lot of them are just out and out racists. Some are even vicious racists. And almost all of them have the worst rightwing politics, usually Libertarian, that you could imagine.
‘Racists.’ There’s that word again. I did say at the beginning of the year that we should petition to have ‘racist’ changed to ‘ethnocentrist’, as what is being described when one cries ‘racist’ is actually ethnocentrism in action. This is mediated by the brain hormone oxytocin. I would wager that ‘racists’ and other, closely related people (ie Arab Muslims with high consang rates) would have higher levels of this brain hormone. This would be the reason why these groups stick to those who are phenotypically to themselves; it’s hormonally driven, like most, if not all things in life. Stop using the word ‘racist’ and use ‘ethnocentrist’ as it makes much more sense.
More importantly, HBD is a profoundly pessimistic doctrine. Just to give you an idea, they hate the idea that the environment or even free will has any role to play human affairs. Look at how furious they get about the Flynn Effect. Look at all the bending over, twisting themselves into weird yoga positions, hand waving, magic wand waving, “Don’t look over there”, and “just-so” explanations they have come up for to deny what is an obvious rise in human intelligence. The idea that the environment could actually increase intelligence fills them with rage because they are all wrapped up in this “intelligence is purely genetic” argument. (Bold is my emphasis)
Yes HBD is pessimistic, as is life, Robert. Who hates the idea that environment has any role in intelligence? Any sensible individual would acknowledge that environment does play a role, but would also know that intelligence is highly heritable. I’m pretty sure he’s just talking about the average ‘racist’, as I’ve never seen an HBD blogger every state that intelligence is fully genetic. Sure there are some intelligence researchers (a minority) who believe that intelligence is fully genetic but just like extreme environmentalism in regards to causes for IQ, extreme hereditarianism is also a stupid view to hold. Genes and environment interact to give the phenotype. We can take an African from, say, South Africa and place him in America. Due to better nutrition and better schooling among other things (like lessened parasitic load and disease), in my opinion African IQ would be about 10 points higher, give or take a few points. We know that environment and genetics (GxE) affects all phenotypic traits, but those like Robert like to play up Flynn gains as if they are on actual g – they aren’t. Flynn Effects are not genetic and are UNRELATED to race differences (Rushton, 2000).
On another note, I seem to have been wrong with my statement that Flynn gains were 3 points per decade in every country. I would wager that since intelligence is affected by nutrition that those countries with lower Flynn gains that showed the least improvement with nutrition would show the lowest IQ gains. I will write on this in the future.
Of course, that argument is a death knell for Blacks and other NAM’s. These people have enough problems as it is, but HBD just drives a stake through their heart to make sure the Black man (or other NAM’s) never rises again. It pretty much condemns them forever as genetic inferiors in sense.
They have enough problems as it is because of their biology which HBD speaks about, the supposed ‘racist ideology’. It pretty much does ‘condemn them’ as ‘genetic ‘inferiors” (whatever that means), but that’s Nature! Nature is not a kind Mistress. Nature is harsh, nature doesn’t care about feelings.
Intelligence isn’t either fully genetic nor fully environmental, but shifted considerably over to the hereditarian position.
It says “niggers ain’t got no brains,” and while that may be true in a very ugly and racist sense that most us don’t want to think about, instead, the HBD’er is overjoyed at this fact. “Black people are stupid!” he hollers to the sky with joy. “And they will stay that way forever!” he yells gleefully. “Environment can’t help them. They are condemned!” At this point, he is nearly gleeful and ready to party.
I laughed out loud at this. Environment can help, to a point (if they come from Africa or some other down-and-out place), but mainly, as seen in the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study, blacks didn’t end up doing better than whites when environments were equalized.
And most of them are racist lousy people, but they are quite smug about their racism because now their racism is given the imprimatur of science. “If science says it’s true, I can’t be racist,” he chortles.
Idiotic. Everyone is ‘ethnocentric’ to a degree, whether consciously or subconsciously. Robert, you are an HBDer yourself whether you admit it or not since you recognize racial differences, so I guess you are ‘racist’.
After all, science isn’t racist. I agree, but distortion of science for racist means sure is, and delighting in the disturbing “racist truths” of science is doubly so.
Sure, gay men are at very high risk of HIV, and up to 20% are infected. That’s a fact of science. So does that make you want to get up and party for 30 days and 30 nights? I hope not, and if so, you are one ugly homophobe.
Science is not racist. But, as Leftists love saying ‘Data isn’t racist, interpretation of it is!!!’ is idiotic. Of course a lot of people distort racial science, but that doesn’t mean that it’s ‘wrong’. Like with making myths on how Europeans were always in Europe 40kya (not true) or how Europeans were always white (not true) he is right here. Most people do not keep up to date on the newest data that comes out so they still hold to these ‘mythologies’ and ‘identity politics’ and push out outdated and straight untrue statements. But all that means is that they are extremely misinformed.
What would I do with that stat of gay men and HIV? Be cautious around gays, just like I’d be cautious around blacks knowing how much crime and murder they committ as a group. This is a sane position to hold. One group is overrepresented in a certain (negative) stat? Keep an eye out while around those of that demographic. That makes sense. Self-preservation always wins out. Robert is of course using the Leftist playbook on ‘racist’ namecalling. Most everything in this article I’ve seen around countless times being spewed to any HBDer who went against conventional wisdom. The term ‘racist’ is just used as a silencing tactic. Robert, you are a Leftist HBDer. You do know that a lot people you align yourself with politically consider you ‘racist’ right?
This notion that anyone who believes HBD is ‘racist’ or any other buzzword is used to shut down any and all discussions on matters. Something that, it seems, flew over his head. When one cannot rebut something an HBDer puts out, they get called ‘racist’. However, the term is pretty much close to meaningless nowadays as it’s been so overused by the Left. All of the HBD bloggers I follow are not racist (hell, one who is most certainly not racist is PumpkinPerson who has a very unhealthy obsession with Oprah. =^) You know it’s true, PP). Others like Razib Khan, JayMan, hbd chick, and Cochran and Harpending, just to name a few, have gotten numerous accusations of being racist. Hell, Razib Khan was hired and fired the same day by the NYT after going on board as a science writer when someone discovered his ‘racist’ writings.
Whether or not people believe HBD doesn’t change how true it is. Racial and ethnic differences still persist, so by just disregarding it we completely go over causes of it other than ‘systemic racism’!!! HBD is true and a valid, non-racist (whatever that means) ideology. We segregate with people like us. Hell, even you, Robert, prefer whites over others (oh no, racist!!!!). Once we start understanding how and why people are ethnocentric (with oxytocin playing the main role), then we can have a more peaceful society as we understand causes for actions, both negative and positive, and better curb violence.
HBD itself is not a hateful ideology, it’s just one based on facts and solid reasoning. Just because people use HBD to justify their own preconceived notions or to use ‘hate facts’ doesn’t mean that it’s a racist ideology. Nice job using the word ‘racist’ as invented by Trotsky. But knowing your political leanings, Robert, that’s AOK, right?
It’s worth noting that Robert banned me for my politics. He claims his comments are ‘free speech’, yet when I said the truth about socialism and the amount of deaths it caused (way more than National Socialism), I got an immediate ban. Truth hurts, huh?
Ethnic differences in the prevalence of obesity occur, majorly in part due to differences in the rates of metabolic syndrome (which is actually a few variables including high blood pressure, high blood sugar which leads to insulin resistance, excess visceral fat around the waist which is the ‘skinny fat‘ phenomenon, and abnormal blood pressure levels) and obesity. Ethnic differences in these variables do, in part, show how the three ethnies differ in rates of obesity. I will discuss the differences between each ethny in regards to metabolic syndrome and sleep and how it leads to the differences in ethnic obesity rates.
There is a ‘missing hour of sleep‘ when comparing blacks and whites. On average, blacks get 6.05 hours of sleep while whites get 6.85 hours of sleep. Of course, the same old racism argument comes up, which, if one ‘percieves’ discrimination, I wouldn’t doubt that it would have an effect on sleep due to a rise in cortisol, which affects sleep due to the raised levels making you restless and not able to fall asleep. Insulin levels then rise due to the rise in cortisol, which is the cause of obesity.
Some studies may try to say that racism and other forms of discrimination are a factor, without even thinking of genetic factors. Another study that Frost cites says that duration of deep sleep and duration of stage 2 (light sleep) is correlated correlated in African Americans with perceived discrimination. The authors defined ‘perceived discrimination’ as the extent to which one believes that their ethnic group have been discriminated against by society. Still even when controlling for discrimination, there were still marked differences between blacks and whites and how long they slept.
Frost then talks about how sleep patterns are heritable and cites studies done on Africans in Africa. One study found that there was an hour sleep difference between Ghanaians and Norwegians on the week days and between a quarter to half hour less on weekends. He shows another study showing that Nigerian college students sleep 6.2 hours a day while getting 70-minute naps in the afternoon.
Frost concludes that the African sleep patterns is normal on Africa. Africans are more active during the cooler times of the day and sleep during the bitter periods. Frost says those who evolved in more northerly climes are particularly adapted to a certain sleep pattern with the same holding true for Africans.
However, these sleep patterns in first world countries have negative effects on metabolism and rates of obesity.
Here are some more studies showing that blacks sleep less than whites:
The sleep of African Americans: a comparative review: The researchers found that blacks take longer to fall asleep than whites, report poorer sleep quality, have more light and less deep sleep, and nap more often and longer. This is a huge recipe for risk factors for obesity, and it shows in their demographics.
Unfair Treatment is associated with Poor Sleep in African American and Caucasian Adults: Pittsburgh SleepSCORE Project: This is one of the studies spoken about above that show that discrimination leads to less sleep. Though, it holds for both black and white adults. The researchers conclude:
Taken together, the confluence of perceived unfair treatment as a chronic stressor and poor sleep and the interplay between the two may have critical roles in long-term health problems.
African Genetic Ancestry is Associated with Sleep Depth in Older African Americans: The researchers hypothesized that “racial differences in sleep phenotypes would show an association with objectively measured individual genetic ancestry in AAs.” They conclude that the slow wave sleep may have genetic underpinnings.
Mexican Americans sleep less than do Mexican immigrants. US-born Mexicans are 40 percent more likely to be short sleepers. This is attenuated by environmental factors such as smoking and stress, which shorten the duration of sleep (smoking decreases the Body Set Weight, whereas cortisol along with insulin in tandem increase it).
Also, in this study by Roane et al (2014) looked at the link between sleep disturbances and stress in Mexican Americans (average age 55) and non-‘Hispanic’ whites (average age 66). Mexicans reported higher levels of sleep disturbance (25 percent) compared to whites (17 percent). They conclude that disturbed sleep was positively correlated with depression.
So both blacks and Mexicans sleep less than whites. These differences in sleep between these three ethnies also affect the prevalence of obesity in these populations.
Obesity and Sleep
It’s long been known that poor sleep habits make people fat. This is due to the effects of insulin and cortisol. Increased insulin comes before increased cortisol–increased insulin is the cause for obesity. Sleeping less is linked to obesity. Since, as described above, the three ethnies differ in sleep patterns, the same also holds true for obesity rates (Ogden at al, 2014). The trends are as follows: 67.3% for whites, 75.6% for blacks, and 77.9% for Hispanics. Though, sleep is only one factor involved with obesity.
Getting adequate sleep is extremely important. Not doing so can lead to a myriad of negative health implications:
Sleep is an important modulator of neuroendocrine function and glucose metabolism and sleep loss has been shown to result in metabolic and endocrine alterations, including decreased glucose tolerance, decreased insulin sensitivity, increased evening concentrations of cortisol, increased levels of ghrelin, decreased levels of leptin, and increased hunger and appetite. Recent epidemiological and laboratory evidence confirm previous findings of an association between sleep loss and increased risk of obesity.
So a lack of sleep leads to an increase in ghrelin levels, decreased levels of leptin (the same effects as caloric restriction over time), increased appetite and hunger, increased evening cortisol (which insulin spikes then follow), decreased insulin sensitivity (the cortisol brings it back up and most people are insulin resistant independent of diet), decreased glucose tolerance, etc. We can see that these ethnic differences in sleep, which are partly genetic in nature, can and would have great effects on metabolism, contributing to the ethnic differences in obesity rates.
And from Harvard:
For example, in the Nurses’ Health Study, researchers followed roughly 60,000 women for 16 years, asking them about their weight, sleep habits, diet, and other aspects of their lifestyle. (2) At the start of the study, all of the women were healthy, and none were obese; 16 years later,women who slept 5 hours or less per night had a 15 percent higher risk of becoming obese, compared to women who slept 7 hours per night. Short sleepers also had 30 percent higher risk of gaining 30 pounds over the course of the study, compared to women who got 7 hours of sleep per night.
Damn!! This, pretty much, mirrors the black-white difference. I’d love to see a racial breakdown of this cohort and will keep an eye out for one, but in the meantime, those who were short sleepers had a 30 percent higher risk of gaining 30 pounds over the course of the study in comparison to women who got 7 hours of sleep per night. Blacks are the most likely group to be overweight and obese in the US, and this data from the Nurses Health Study (which tons of data can be drawn from this study) shows one reason why, however the driver is cortisol > insulin > processed carbs > increased insulin > insulin resistance > increased insulin > vicious cycle > obesity. These differences in sleep almost perfectly mirror the ethnic differences in obesity.
There are several possible ways that sleep deprivation could increase the chances of becoming obese. (1) Sleep-deprived people may be too tired to exercise, decreasing the “calories burned” side of the weight-change equation. Or people who don’t get enough sleep may take in more calories than those who do, simply because they are awake longer and have more opportunities to eat; lack of sleep also disrupts the balance of key hormones that control appetite, so sleep-deprived people may be hungrier than those who get enough rest each night.
Ah the old ‘exercise to increase the Calories Out part of the equation’. however, Calories Out does not stay constant. This also rebuts the ‘Eat Less and Move More’ CICO (Calories In/Calories Out) model of obesity, showing that because it doesn’t take insulin into account, it’s doomed to fail.
Speaking of insulin, it’s about time I focused on metabolic syndrome.
As I discussed in a previous post, Race, Obesity, Poverty, and IQ, metabolic differences exist between race/ethnicity. ‘Hispanics’ metabolize carbohydrates differently, blacks have a lower fiber intake (increased fiber protects against obesity, another correlate) while whites have a more high fat diet. Contrary to popular belief, dietary fat doesn’t make you fat as it’s the macro that spikes your insulin the least.
Diaz et al (2005) showed that minority populations are more likely to be affected by diabetes mellitus which may be due to less healthy diets and/or genetic factors. Using the National Health and Nutrition Survey for 1999-2000, they analyzed overweight, healthy adults, calculating dietary intake variables and insulin sensitivity by ethnicity. They characterized insulin resistance with fasted insulin, as those who are more likely to become insulin resistant have higher fasted insulin levels (levels taken after waking, with the subject being told not to eat the night before as to get a better reading of fasted insulin levels). Non-‘Hispanic’ whites had higher energy and fat intake while ‘Hispanics’ had higher carb intake with blacks having lower fiber intake. Blacks and ‘Hispanics’ were more likely to have lower insulin sensitivity. However, ‘Hispanics’ were more likely to have lower insulin sensitivity even after controlling for diet, showing that metabolic differences exist between ethnicities that affect carbohydrate metabolism which leads to higher rates of diabetes in those populations.
In ‘Hispanics’, several loci were discovered that play a role in hepatic (relating to the liver) fat content. Along with showing that ‘Hispanics’ have lower insulin (which due to low insulin, blood glucose builds up in the blood stream leading to diabetes) and showing that they metabolize glucose in the liver differently due to differing loci leading to more cases of fatty liver, this shows how and why ‘Hispanics’ have higher rates of Type II Diabetes Mellitus (TIIDM).
Since TIIDM affects Mexican Americans more, better measures to address their differences in carbohydrate metabolism need to be taken. Racial and ethnic differences in TIIDM are as follows:
7.6% of non-Hispanic whites
9.0% of Asian Americans
12.8% of Hispanics
13.2% of non-Hispanic blacks
15.9% of American Indians/Alaskan Natives
Whites eat a higher fat diet, which means a decrease in carbs. Asians eat white rice which spikes blood glucose eliciting a high insulin response leading to TIIDM, ‘Hispanics’, non-‘Hispanic’ blacks, and Indians and Alaskan Natives (I wish they separated Indians and Alaskan Natives as I’m almost positive that Alaskan natives have a lower rate) all eat high carb, low fat, low protein diets. Carbohydrates are a main staple, and since they spike insulin the most, they are the cause for obesity and TIIDM rates in these populations.
Turning my attention over to metabolic syndrome and blacks and whites, we can see that black women with PCOS have an increased risk for cardiovascular disease and metabolic syndrome in comparison to white women with PCOS. The researchers say that after controlling for age and body mass index (BMI) “black women with PCOS had a significantly increased prevalence of low high-density lipoprotein and high glucose. The general CVD risk was significantly increased in black adults with PCOS.” Though, a longitudinal study needs to be carried out to assess the independent impact of race and PCOS with CVD (Cardiovascular Disease).
Blacks have a higher chance to be diagnosed with metabolic syndrome since they are also at increased risk to have elevated blood pressure (hypertension), become obese, and be diabetic. This is due to their diet, which is due to their low IQ (obesity is correlated with intelligence), and different metabolism in comparison to whites.
There are also metabolic differences between race and sex. Fat oxidation is lower in black than white men and in African American men/women and white men/women, they have a lower metabolic rate!!! 24-hour energy expenditure is lower in black women in comparison to white women, whereas physical activity energy expenditure (PAEE) is the same as whites. Contrasted with women, black men had higher PAEE than white men. The authors conclude:
In conclusion, this comparative study of 24-h energy metabolism in African Americans and whites with use of a respiratory chamber not only confirms the previous findings from ventilated-hood studies of a lower resting metabolic rate, but also suggests a lower 24EE in African American women than in white women. Although only marginal ethnic differences in metabolic rate were found in men, African American men seem to have a lower rate of fat oxidation than do white men. The underlying mechanisms for these sex differences and the significance of these findings with respect to the development and maintenance of obesity remains to be investigated in longitudinal studies.
Metabolic Syndrome and Obesity
I’ve been in a few discussion with PumpkinPerson on phenotype and if the similar phenotype found in Australoids and Pacific Islanders meant they were Negroid. However, just because two *dissimilar groups* look *phenotypically similar*, that doesn’t mean that they are *genotypically similar*. Afrocentrists have also latched on to this ridiculous theory, saying that blacks are ‘all over the world, displaced by whites yada yada yada’. Today, I’ll show that just because those two groups look similar to Africans doesn’t mean that they are similar on the genotype.
PP wrote an article last week, The importance of leaving Africa, which I will be quoting from for the remainder of this article.
The root of this debate is not so much genuine scientific disagreement, but ethnic genetic interests. The black Afrocentrists believe it’s good for black people to be seen as part of this larger, global black community, thus dispelling the claim that blacks only left Africa in chains. For leaving Africa was one of the milestones that separates humans from our closest living relatives (chimpanzees), so the claim that blacks never left Africa is seen as racist indeed.
I agree here that Ethnic Genetic Interests is the main driver of the dispute.
But if the mere leaving of Africa did indeed screen for IQ, why do the Australoids score even lower on IQ tests than sub-Saharan Africans do, and have somewhat smaller brains
Because the environment is similar it would select for similar phenotypes, but just because the environment is extremely similar doesn’t mean that no genetic change occurred in the 70 ky that Australoids left Africa in.
By contrast, the non-black HBDers think it elevates their racial status to promote the idea that their ancestors did something that blacks couldn’t accomplish: leaving Africa.
Well, as I’ve covered here last year (time flys), those who left Africa had specific alleles, the DRD7 and DRD4 alleles, which are absent from SSA populations. This ‘wanderlust’, due to the DRD7 allele, is the *cause* of the migration OoA. It has nothing to do with being more intelligent than those who stayed, it has to do with the genetic mutation that arose from a common ancestor around the time of the OoA migration. The cause of the migration does come down to genetic differences in the founder population (s), but not intelligence differences.
Two notes on the DRD4 allele: populations with a history of migration have a higher chance of having the allele in comparison to sedentary populations. And: a correlation of .85 was found between km traveled and the rate of DRDR4 allele frequency distributions. These alleles are more prevalent in South America, which is not surprising since they had to travel the furthest.
PP then starts talking about why Australoids have lower IQs, saying:
With agriculture/civilization, the dark caucasoids traveled the World, spreading their high IQ mutation to every corner of the globe except those that are most isolated. So the mean genetic IQ of the entire World increased by 13 points, with the exception of places that were too hard to get to, such as Australia and Papua New Guineas, the Congo rain forest, the Southern tip of Africa, and the Americas. Since most of sub-Saharan Africa got the genes, they suddenly leaped from having lower IQs than the Austaloids, to being smarter (only the bushmen and pygmies, who like the Australoids, were too isolated to get the genes, remained behind the Australoids).
This is a great hypothesis. It makes a lot of sense. The ‘Dark Caucasoids’ as PP calls them, better known as Anatolian/Neolithic Farmers could have had a higher chance for more high IQ mutations due to the fact that they could farm and thus have a higher population giving more of a chance for higher IQs.
The downfall for the dark caucasoids was spreading these genes to whites and East Asians. Because of cold winters, East Asians and whites were smarter than pre-mutation dark caucasoids, and now with these mutations, they were smarter once again.
I’m confused here. What we call whites today did not exist that far back in the past. Europeans are an amalgamation of four different ancient populations, basically are an amalgamation of ‘Dark Caucasoids’. Is he also saying that the Neolithic Farmers were more intelligent than East Asians?
Eurasians didn’t become a distinct breeding group until the end of the last Glacial Maximum. This is why there is ‘genetic similarity’ to modern-day Europeans with some old, 10k year plus peoples in the Americas. Because the two groups didn’t split into distinct populations, they show a similar genotype. This is what proponents of the Solutrean Hypothesis need to get through their heads. (I recently got into a nice discussion over at The Alternative Hypothesis, scroll down for comments. I’m going to make a more comprehensive post on the SH in the near future as I have come across even better data on it.)
We can see from this PCA graph (from Zainel Abidin et al) that Australoids don’t even cluster in the vicinity of Africans. They are on the complete other side of the graph, showing how great of a genetic distance there is between these two populations. You can see the other Oceanic peoples (the orange dots, who Afrocentrists and others say are Negroid, Abos, Papuans, Melanesians, etc) are also clustered away from Africans. PCA graphs show that the three populations are not genetically similar and that phenotype, sometimes, isn’t enough to show who belongs to what racial grouping. PCA analysis refutes peoples ‘feelz’ on what they believe with their eyes. Even with this data, their ‘feelz’ still overrides the truth and they still believe lies.
While on this subject of similar phenotype not meaning one population is racially the same as another, people use this same fallacious reasoning for ‘white-looking’ peoples in the ME.
Quoting Razib Khan:
The final issue is that a lot of the phenotypes that we racially code are recent. This probably explains why groups like the Kalash and Nuristanis can look more like Europeans than South Asians, but they’re genetically more like South Asians.
What does any of this have to do with non-scientific things? I don’t really know. My interest in population structure is intellectual, not personal. But a certain type of person should probably stop talking about how white people have been in Europe for 40,000 years. First, the ancestors of modern Europeans 40,000 years ago were almost all residing outside of Europe. An assertion that holds until 15,000 years ago. And most would still be resident outside of Europe 8,000 years ago as depending on how you count/calculate. *** And, perhaps more importantly, the typical phenotype of Northern Europeans probably really coalesced only around ~5,000 years ago. ***
How can there be such phenotypic similarity in two populations separated by thousands of miles?
Easy. The Kalash and other ME ‘white-looking’ populations have ancient Siberian ancestry. As shown in my linked article, modern-day Europeans have a great deal of Siberian ancestry, mostly from the true Aryans, the Yamnaya peoples.
And in the comments Razib was asked:
“Could I bother you to list the top three theories/positions that you see falling into this unsupportable category?”
To which he responded:
“that phylogeny and phenotype track closely. just because you can’t tell the physical difference between two pops (e.g., solomon islanders and sub-saharan africans) they must be phylogenetically close. this is not the case.”
Pretty much seals the deal.
Just because populations look similar on the outside doesn’t mean they are genetically similar. As shown from Razib’s post, the phenotypes that we code are relatively recent, which is why there are some populations separated by thousands of miles yet look extremely similar.
This was said in the comments:
I can’t really tell about the genetics since I don’t have the scientific background, but my impression is a lot of those white identity guys have an extremely mythologised view of the past. This seems to be true even of the smarter ones; e.g. I recently read a bit of Richard Spencer’s twitter account (out of interest in the alt right phenomenon) and he throws out such totally retarded comments as “Europe has always been unified, even before Christianity” (totally ignoring what is known about the ancient Greeks’ intimate links to the Near East, the Greeks’ and Romans’ unflattering view of the northern barbarians, the emergence of Latin Christendom in the middle ages and the fairly late rise of the concept of Europe etc.) or “Europe is a nation”. There seems to be little awareness of the complexities of historical change because everything is reduced to some supposedly unchanging racial essence reaching back into the mists of prehistoric times. Now I’m pretty far right and “racist” myself, but a lot of this really seems pretty stupid…like myth-making for identity politics.
i knew the pre-WN richard spencer (we lost touch after his ideological changes ~2010). he’s smart. i have a hard time believing he doesn’t know the latest research, which was evening starting to be evident back then. so i think it’s myth-making.
p.s. a friend of mine sent me a link to a richard spencer interview with kevin macdonald last year i think, pointing to a specific segment of the podcast talking about ancient genetics. kevin was telling richard how europeans 40,000 years ago were white, and those are the ancestors of europeans. that’s wrong.
Europeans 40kya were not white those in the area at that time are *not* the ancestors of today’s Europeans.
Both Afrocentrists and Nordicists need to keep up with the new information that’s constantly coming out. Because what they say in regards to genetics and/or anything else is mostly wrong.