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“Racial Realities of Southern Europe”: Nordicist Fantasies Redux

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JP Rushton

Richard Lynn

L:inda Gottfredson

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2000 words

I came across this garbage from the DailyStormer the other day, Racial Realities of Southern Europe that has, of course, huge misconceptions on the genetic history of Southern Europe. This “Sven” guy–like most Nordicists–cherry-picks to prove his idiotic and untrue points, like most Nordicists. I won’t be going through the garbage video on the site (since it’s too boring and his fake voice irritates me) but I’ll go through the comments section.

Italy once contained Rome, but Rome lost its racial purity when it made citizens of all races, only later to be rescued by the invasion of new and vigorous barbarian stocks.

Stupid. No basis in reality–only has a basis in Nordicist fantasies.

The crazies in the comments ramble on and on about “blonde-haired Jesus”, the founding Romans having blonde hair, Spartans and Macedonians had blonde hair (wut?), Iberians were blonde (as if they don’t have a sizeable population that is blonde today). All idiotic garbage that no serious person who has ever read any serious genetic studies takes seriously.

“His Name is YHVH” says:

And I’m not going to debate this. I’ve read meticulous translations of Homer, and Arthur Kemp, and the viking invasion of Greece after the volcanic eruption.

Who in the hell cites March of the Titans seriously for genetics or anything else for that matter? He has such a warped view of history, muh Nordics was Egyptians, muh Nordics was Native Indians, muh Solutrean Hypothesis, muh blonde-haired, blue-eyed Greeks and Romans. Idiocy with no basis in reality. It’s funny. Nordicists get on Afrocentrists for attempting to steal European history, yet Nordicists DO THE SAME THING. Nordicists and Afrocentrists are two sides of the same coin. Yet neither of them realize that. Come on guys, #its2016 don’t cite trash like MotT and expect to get taken seriously by anyone who knows what they’re talking about.

So, you want to be superior to the niggers and the mestizzos and the chinamen but then you don’t want to be inferior to anything above you, thus acknowledging superior and inferior exist on the one hand when it suits you conveniently and then arguing against it when it does not. Now which is it?

These things don’t exist in in evolutionary biology.

This “Sven” guy thinks that the Nordic race originate in North Africa. But what do genetic studies tell us? I’ll quote Razib here:

read this paper: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1502.02783.pdf i have blogged extensively on this, i’m not going to repeat myself at length. #becauseIts2016 and the data is out there.

One may say “The Nordic traits are recessive so it’s impossible for us to have been a result of mongrelization”.

one may say that if you are retarded. i can name two “nordic traits,” lactase persistence and skin color, which are not recessive. the former is mostly dominant (h ~ 1) while the latter exhibits midparent parent values closer to light than dark (h > 0.5). others, like eye and hair color are more recessive (h < 0.5). but one can not say that an individual is mostly recessive or dominant, as that is not even wrong.

if you are a “racerealist” you should know these basic facts of human population genetics in 2016. otherwise you are a racemythist.

(of course, anyone who has seen my son would laugh at the idea that “nordic traits” are recessive :-) like ~20% of northern europeans he is a het. on KITLG locus with one loss of function allele)

(oh, and also, nordic traits are recent anyway, so ancestry is less important than you think: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v528/n7583/abs/nature16152.html)

Nordicists et al, it’s #2016, please get up to speed on the latest studies and data. If you won’t get up to speed on the matter, don’t even call yourself a ‘race-realist’, you’d be better off calling yourself a ‘race-mythist’ as Razib says.

“Menhir” says:

No, I believe Aryan originated in central asia, and migrated to Europe.

Nope. Originated in the Caspian steppe.

“Wesley Lysander” says:

“eh this seems like more of the usual genetic science which proves that Italians aren’t Caucasian”

I covered this last year:

Combined data from two large mtDNA studies provides an estimate of non-Caucasoid maternal ancestry in Italians. The first study sampled 411 Italians from all over the country and found five South Asian M and East Asian D sequences (1.2%) and eight sub-Saharan African L sequences (1.9%). The second study sampled 465 Sicilians and detected ten M sequences (2.2%) and three L sequences (0.65%). This makes a total of 3% non-white maternal admixture (1.3% Asian and 1.7% African), which is very low and typical for European populations, since Pliss et al. 2005, e.g., observed 1.8% Asian admixture in Poles and 1.2% African admixture in Germans. (Plaza et al. 2003; Romano et al. 2003)

Similar data from the Y-chromosome reveals Italians’ even lower non-Caucasoid paternal admixture. Both studies obtained samples from all over the mainland and islands. No Asian DNA was detected anywhere, but a single sub-Saharan African E(xE3b) sequence was found in the first study’s sample of 416 (0.2%), and six were observed in the second study’s sample of 746 (0.8%). The total is therefore a minuscule 0.6%, which decreases to 0.4% if only Southern Italians are considered and 0% if only Sicilians are considered.Again, these are normal levels of admixture for European populations (e.g. Austrians were found to have 0.8% E(xE3b) by Brion et al. 2004). (Semino et al. 2004; Cruciani et al. 2004)

An analysis of 10 autosomal allele frequencies in Southern Europeans (including Italians, Sicilians and Sardinians) and various Middle Eastern/North African populations revealed a “line of sharp genetic change [that] runs from Gibraltar to Lebanon,” which has divided the Mediterranean into distinct northern and southern clusters since at least the Neolithic period. The authors conclude that “gene flow [across the sea] was more the exception than the rule,” attributing this result to “a joint product of initial geographic isolation and successive cultural divergence, leading to the origin of cultural barriers to population admixture.” (Simoni et al. 1999)

More Nordicist idiocy with no basis in reality.

“Crowley” says:

Science proves Mediterranean people are exposed to sun radiation more often, and that’s it. Scandinavian people get their pale features from being exposed to colder climates more often. Any pan-Nordic theory that all other Europeans are icky tainted negroes has long been debunked.

So you need science to tell you that Meds are exposed to more sun from being closer to the equator? ….I see.

“Sven” says:

Right at the beginning of the chapter he explains that the only true Mediterraneans left are the Welsh and the Irish.

This guy is such an idiot. I guess the Germans are negro because they have 1.2 percent negro admixture. “Through DNA research”. He doesn’t keep up on the latest studies. Dumb prole. Moreover, Mediterranean peoples stretch from Southern Europe to North Africa to the Middle East; they are all Mediterranean people. Though, people who don’t keep up on the latest studies and only retarded dogma think otherwise.

“Eric Stryker” says:

Another weird thing is that Stoddard himself looks almost textbook Mediterranean.

Then “Sven” says:

What he looks like bears no relevance to his work at all.

I see you are now reduced to ad hominem equivalent in your quest to discredit his work.

This is GOLD coming from someone like him. I wouldn’t doubt that this guy is one of those people to throw away a source because it comes from a leftist magazine or throw something away and disregard it because a Jew wrote it. Such hypocrisy.

“Sven” then says:

We dont all seek to bend the truth to try and make it suit ourselves.

I can’t stop laughing! This is coming from the prole moron who says all of these lies SEEKING TO BEND THE TRUTH TO TRY AND MAKE IT SUIT HIMSELF. People’s idiocy and lack of introspection into their views never ceases to amaze me.

Soooooo why should any other sources be thrown away for where they come from? People say “H-he’s a Jew don’t listen!!!” But that has “no relevance to his work at all.”

“Eric Stryker” says:

Obviously Sven, you are a person with a very low IQ, so I think continuing to debate your Biblically Nordic Spartans is a waste of time. Good luck in your self-esteem rehabilitation and guidance from vile trecherous little Jew rats like Josephus, Sven Jones. I can’t get angry at you, you’re too stupid to hate.

Truest thing said in that thread. Biblical Nordic Spartans? Who the hell believes this garbage?

“Sven” says:

Just like a Jew you try to smear White racial researchers like Stoddard and claim Josephus as one of yours.

Hey, let’s go of some old book and not modern-day genetic studies! You’re a Jew because you disagreed with me.

This Sven moron thinks that Nords originated in North Africa!! My sides!!!

Anyone reading this, to see the true origin of the Nords, read this.

“Sven” says:

Nordics were not in pre-historic Germania in large numbers when Rome was being built, they were mainly in the Levant, North Africa and southern Europe.

I am convinced that this guy is retarded. Nordics came from North Africa, the Levant and Southern Europe? CITATION NEEDED. I already showed that Nordic traits are recent, so how the hell could they originate in MENA countries and South Europe?

“Sven” then says:

I guess you must think Nordics were sitting in the ice, freezing their asses off doing nothing and leaving no trace until they suddenly discovered civilisation in Europe in the first millennium.

This is one of the only things he said that’s true in this thread. That’s pretty much how it went down. What’s funny is that your ideological brethre–the Afrocentrists– call whites “cave beasts”. Who were these “cave beasts”? Nords! They were “living in caves” before Rome cultured and civilized them. Both the Romans and Greeks had pretty unkind words for the barbarians to the North.

Then “Sven” cites all of his garbage “Radio Stormer” podcasts as proof. Where are the genetic studies from Pubmed and PLOS Genetics? The fact that this guy had to link to his garbage and untrue radio show speaks volumes.

“Sven” then says that Copts and Berbers were Nordic. Ha! These Nordicists, man. They’ll say anything to grab others’ history, just like their cousins the Afrocentrists.

“His Name Is YHVH” comes back and says:

Correction, my uneducated friend, Nordics DID build Rome. They also built the pyramids, or didn’t you know, didn’t you see the blond hair mummies?
Why don’t you go read March of the Titans and learn about it?

“Go read MotT bro!! It’s the truth of European history and the white race!!” No serious person takes that book seriously. Hey didn’t you see the blonde hair mummies!!?? It’s not like the racial phenotypes we code aren’t recent or anything!!

I LOVE how these morons link to backwater websites and not Pubmed or PLOS Genetics for their information. Shows what they read!!!

“Sven” says:

The Bible itself tells you Jesus ancestors were White, fair, ruddy and blue eyed. It also tells you that the Spartans were descended from Judah in the book of Maccabees and Flavius Josephus Histories.

“Believe the Bible about genetics.” I wonder if these people read what Biblical scholars say on interpretations of the Bible. You know they don’t so, like their cousins the Afrocentrists and “black Israelites”, they take Bible verses and warp them to suit their needs. Isn’t it funny how these groups all hate each other but they’re cut from the same ideological cloth?

People like this guy just push anything that affirms their ideology. It’s not based in science–it’s based in fantasy. To see the true origin of the Nordics, see herehere, and here. Most of what Nordicists say–just like their ideological cousins the Afrocentrists–is not based in reality but based in fantasies.

This article from the Unz Review, What Race Were the Greek and Romans? harps on and on about the same things that “Sven” does. However, the author gets summarily dismantled in the comments.

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17 Comments

  1. Salgo says:

    We Wuz Emprahs N’ Shieet

    Like

    • RaceRealist says:

      Nordicists and Afrocentrists are two sides of the same coin. Ideological cousins and they don’t even realize it. Nordicists pull the “kang” stuff just like Afrocentrists.

      Like

    • Denny says:

      @RaceRealist

      Thanks for writing this. Yeah, those guys are kinda nutty. When their trash talk is refuted they go totally ape and claim they are “always” being attacked. They start the fight, then the resistance cases them to pull a “dish it but can’t take it.” It’s pretty funny actually, they spend so much time trying to pick fights with other Euros and then play the victim, hmm- isn’t that how they claim Jews behave? And Blacks? Again, good piece.

      Like

    • RaceRealist says:

      You’re welcome.

      They call you ‘anti-white’ when you point out the inconsistencies/fantasies they have. It doesn’t help to cite people like Arthur Kemp, another Nordicist Fantasist, who has no knowledge of history. Anyone who cites that book seriously should be shown how they’re wrong. Though they mostly persist in their idiotic beliefs.

      I’ve noticed that a lot of Nordicists also are Christian Identists and believe the Jews of the Bible to be Aryan with blonde hair and blue eyes. Yet another fantasy—no, delusion—from the Nordicists.

      they spend so much time trying to pick fights with other Euros and then play the victim, hmm- isn’t that how they claim Jews behave? And Blacks?

      Exactly. They get on other groups for what they do, then play the victim when people attack their fantasies of the world. Here’s an apt picture:

      Yes, belief in a ‘master race’ is retarded. Superiority doesn’t exist in evolutionary biology.

      Like

    • Denny says:

      @RaceRealist

      Haha, funny cartoon, but they can’t be convinced really. Myself personally, I think Nordics are just fine, but stupid stuff like the article you cited needs to be mocked. Anyone citing Kemp cannot be convinced, nor does it matter. These guys are on the bottom and they demand others prove themselves to them (wtf???) And with very amateurish half-knowledge they come hard out of the gates (again, wtf???).

      I am not too terribly knowledgeable in this area, that’s why I STFU and read what guys like you wrote. Even still, my little knowledge far exceeds these bozos, and so it is so easy to see how very little they know, lol. And lastly, Alpines, Meds, Slavs, Dinarics, etc are never picking on them or starting fights with them, but once they defend themselves they are suddenly “attacking” them, LOL! Trouble is that the ’empruhs’ don’t have good comebacks and they are easily ridiculed and so cannot say anything other than “anti.” And this is all so avoidable to boot!

      Like

    • RaceRealist says:

      I happen to enjoy dissecting things like this. It’s fun, and someone needs to refute it. You’re right though. You can’t tell the truth to someone who doesn’t want to hear it, nor can you change one’s view if they weren’t reasoned into the view. It’s funny. These use feelings and scant ‘evidence’ to prove their ‘assertions’.

      I’ve not read March of the Titans yet, but it’s largely fantasy masked as non-fiction. People who want to believe this garbage will believe it, without talking a critical look at his fantastical claims.

      I am not too terribly knowledgeable in this area, that’s why I STFU and read what guys like you wrote. Even still, my little knowledge far exceeds these bozos, and so it is so easy to see how very little they know

      Would you like references? I can get you some this afternoon to get you started. If it smells like bullshit and goes against common knowledge, it most likely is bullshit with no basis in reality.

      And lastly, Alpines, Meds, Slavs, Dinarics, etc are never picking on them or starting fights with them, but once they defend themselves they are suddenly “attacking” them, LOL! Trouble is that the ’empruhs’ don’t have good comebacks and they are easily ridiculed and so cannot say anything other than “anti.” And this is all so avoidable to boot!

      Nordicists are literally averse to the truth. Read this from Razib Khan.

      Our Magnificent Bastard Race

      substantial proportion of the ancestry of Northern Europeans is “European hunter-gatherer,” dating to the Pleistocene. But here’s the kicker: most of that ancestry dates to after the LGM, to about ~15,000 years ago. The really deep Pleistocene ancestry in Europe is only found at very low levels now.

      The final issue is that a lot of the phenotypes that we racially code are recent. This probably explains why groups like the Kalash and Nuristanis can look more like Europeans than South Asians, but they’re genetically more like South Asians.

      And:

      read this paper: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1502.02783.pdf i have blogged extensively on this, i’m not going to repeat myself at length. #becauseIts2016 and the data is out there.

      One may say “The Nordic traits are recessive so it’s impossible for us to have been a result of mongrelization”.

      one may say that if you are retarded. i can name two “nordic traits,” lactase persistence and skin color, which are not recessive. the former is mostly dominant (h ~ 1) while the latter exhibits midparent parent values closer to light than dark (h > 0.5). others, like eye and hair color are more recessive (h < 0.5). but one can not say that an individual is mostly recessive or dominant, as that is not even wrong.

      if you are a “racerealist” you should know these basic facts of human population genetics in 2016. otherwise you are a racemythist.

      (of course, anyone who has seen my son would laugh at the idea that “nordic traits” are recessive 🙂 like ~20% of northern europeans he is a het. on KITLG locus with one loss of function allele)

      (oh, and also, nordic traits are recent anyway, so ancestry is less important than you think: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v528/n7583/abs/nature16152.html)

      The truth is not on the side of the Nordicists. They are “mongrel race”, around 5kya according to Razib, and for new genomic evidence backs his assertion.

      Nordicists can only cite old writings, Hitler said the Aryans were blonde haired and blue eyed! Too bad, the evidence points in the other direction—brown hair, brown eyes and, relative to today’s Europeans, dark skin.

      The Aryans are the Yamna, a people from the Caspian steppe in Russia. Nothing to do with fantastical fantasies from Nordicists

      Like

    • Denny says:

      @RaceRealist

      Thank you, that would be nice of you to include some references. My knowledge of this stuff is very basic, but I might as well be a professor compared to the ’empruhs.’ One more thing about them, they seem to not know of Cromagnids at all, or Baltics. They class them both as “Nordics” usually. The skull shape of Nordics and Meds are actually almost the same, but hey, it’s all “Nordic” after all, they must’ve been 800 million them back in the day.

      Despite the fact that nordicysts need to be mocked, I feel guilty as I do not want to offend normal, good Nordic folks. I think the whole excessive focus on sub-races is overdone and ridiculous anyway; I am a fan of all European types, ethnicities and languages. It’s not such a big deal that they believe in nonsense (like “Identity” church for example), that’s fine, but the fact that the need to try and make fun of the rest of the race and then retreat to their ‘victim status’ when met wit slight opposition, which consists mostly of facts! And they keep thinking Dynamics are all “Jewish,” lol!

      I’m reading your debunking of the “Black Italians” piece right now. It should all be so obvious really, but afro-nordo-whateverists just can’t help but complicate things. Italians are probably the most maligned.

      Like

    • RaceRealist says:

      Read Razib Khan’s stuff that I linked previously, along with Haak et al that he cited. That’ll get you up to speed on the most recent findings.

      Yea not all Nords are Nordicists, but the ones who are need to be mocked. Their ‘beliefs’ are fantasies based on emotions and myth. They need to be refuted and laughed at on the side.

      Garbage like Christian Identity most definitely needs to be called out, summarily dismantled and refuted, and of course, laughed at. It literally has no basis in reality.

      but the fact that the need to try and make fun of the rest of the race and then retreat to their ‘victim status’ when met wit slight opposition, which consists mostly of facts!

      This is the case for all people who think with their emotions. It’s even funnier (and sadder) that people who laugh at others for thinking with their emotions do the exact same thing.

      Nordicists and Afrocentrists have no idea what they are talking about. They are two sides to the same coin; grasping at any slight thing that will ‘prove’ their ideology. Italians aren’t black or Arab. This is just what one would believe with no understanding of modern-day population genetics.

      I need to read March of the Titans and write an article on it. I’ve been meaning to get around to it but I’ve just been buying books on the origin of life for the moment.

      Like

    • Denny says:

      @Race Realist

      I’ll have to check out that link, thanks. Also, the spell checker app turned my Dinarics into “Dynamics.” It should read that they think Dinarics are Jewish. That and they think everyone in Eastern Europe is “Asiatic.” As for March of the Titans, I read it years ago online, google around and you’ll probably find it. If you hate it this much now, wait until you read it, lol! As for “Identity,” years ago I used to listen to shortwave show that was of that “church.” Once a guy claimed that nearly everyone is “mixed” and that there are only 7 million white people left in the world. At another time, the same guy claimed that almost all Latin American Mestizos have Jewish blood.

      Like

    • RaceRealist says:

      Here is some more information for you.

      Evolutionist also talks about the Yamna and Haak et al’s dataset a lot, her blog is worth checking out.

      Once a guy claimed that nearly everyone is “mixed” and that there are only 7 million white people left in the world. At another time, the same guy claimed that almost all Latin American Mestizos have Jewish blood.

      First part is right, second part is wrong. Third part is some black Israelite garbage. I’ve had encounters with them on the streets of Times Square a few years back. Good times. Very very funny.

      People like this guy you’re describing are like those black Israelites screaming at tourists in NYC. Not based in reality, but in Fantasy Land.

      Nordicists and Afrocentrists are two sides of the same coin.

      Like

    • Denny says:

      Yeah, but at least afrocentrists are funny, and they don’t cry when being responded to. But hey, it’s their month now, so maybe the Black Israelites will post some funny videos.

      Like

    • RaceRealist says:

      Afrocentrists are literally delusional. I don’t know who takes the cake though, Afrocentrists or Nordicists. They both are just so damn funny! I think Nordicists do though. They literally say the ‘We Wuz Kangz’ meme, all the while attempting to ‘Kang’ it up themselves. Hypocrisy….

      And the black Israelites in NYC are some of the funniest people I’ve ever encountered. If you’re ever in Manhattan, they hang around Times Sqaure shouting that white people are going to die, white women are going to get raped, and white people will be enslaved.

      Like

    • Denny says:

      Indeed man. The Israelites are literally straining to be as ‘hardcore’ as possible, leading to many slip ups, stutterings and mispronunciations. Nevertheless, they don’t seem to get bothered by anyone for it, if any of us said 1% of that silliness anywhere it would be the end of the world. But at least they are funny. Nordicists are still silly, the site you linked in this article is pro-Golden Dawn, of which the minority of the members are Nordic (which is fine) and are mostly Med, Dinaric, Alpine, Cromagnid and all points in between.

      Yeah, poor Italians get it from both idiotic sides worse than anyone else. Good God, just look at them for crying out loud, they aren’t Black! And they always site that stupid scene from the stupid movie “True Romance,” which comes from “Jewish Hollywood,” which is supposedly always suspect. Hippy-dippy Dennis Hopper is an authority I guess.

      I’m gonna say that afrocentrics have more interesting names/titles, as well as appearances and speaking styles; nordicists are lacking in these things. They are less willing to take their show on the road, while afrocentrics are getting in full costume and having ‘debates’ with each other in the street.

      Check this vid, I’ll give highlights:

      OK, at 57 minutes and 30 seconds to 58 minutes even, the interviewee drops some science and exposes our deepest secret. From 102-104 minutes he exposes the truth about Melania Trump and Jackie O. Enjoy.

      Like

    • RaceRealist says:

      Black Israelites are certainly passionate about their ‘views’, you gotta give them that. But they sound so ridiculous. Next time I’m in NYC I will take a video of these guys. They’re hilarious.

      True Romance is retarded and the fact that people cite it as some kind of evidence shows that they have no idea about world history.

      Afrocentrists are literally delusional. One of the only correct things they say is that Man began in Africa. They talk about the pineal gland, bringing in complete pseudoscience with it. I feel bad for anyone that believes Afrocentrist lies.

      Like

    • Denny says:

      They are pretty ridiculous, but I think they take themselves very seriously. Nordicists would not have the sack to get out there and do that, plus their nicknames are not as inventive as the afrocentrists. I don’t think Nordicists are anywhere near as passionate about their “views” as even the mildest afrocentric.

      Yeah, always True Romance, every time this comes up. On top of being a cheesy movie, that stupid bit about Sicilians is take naps literal fact by many. The hours they spend online are not spent in study of history, languages, anthropology or any of the things they claim expertise in, but the many hours are wasted talking trash on various fora and always using True Romance.

      I like how the interviewee in the posted video spoke of the “Kennedy Moors” and that Jackie O. belonged to the “Peloponnesian Moors,” LOL! I think it is from these guys that Nordicists get their info. When they are not looking at everyone’s nose and waiting for it to ‘bend.’

      Like

  2. Salmed says:

    The Afrocentric trash you talked about in this entry might have something to do with the Nation of Islam:

    http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Minister_Louis_Farrakhan_9/article_101093.shtml

    http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Perspectives_1/article_7371.shtml

    Seeing Richard Spencer’s talk at that university where some Dark Hambeast went We Wuz Kang makes me wonder how much the American public education got infested with Afrocentrists and other progs who list tumblr as a source while being hostile to communities who specialize in such subjects (as in, having men with research positions at accredited institutions of higher learning, having professional scholars with the proper amount of peer reviewed journals, and having works that went through a rigorous peer review process).

    Like

    • RaceRealist says:

      Thanks for the links. I’ll probably tackle the peanut butter myth first as it’s my favorite one and there is evidence refuting the Carver contention if you really look for it for five minutes.

      Do you have a video of what you’re talking about? I don’t really keep up with politics. I don’t really care.

      Like

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